Dr. Gina Poe

LMNT, Helix Sleep, Eight Sleep, Momentous

Sleep Phases, Perfect Night’s Sleep

Can You Oversleep?

Sleep Cycles, Sleep Spindles, “Falling” Asleep, Dreams & Memories

Tool: Growth Hormone Release & Sleep

Adolescence; Early Sleep, Alcohol & Sleep Spindles

Middle Sleep States & REM, Schema, Waking at Night

Deep Sleep, Dreams & Senses

AG1 (Athletic Greens)

Later Sleep, Paralysis, Sleepwalking, Sleep Talking

Alarm Clock & Grogginess; Sleep Trackers, Brain & Sleep

Early Slow Wave Sleep & “Washout”, Normal Sleep Cycle & Night Owls

Locus Coeruleus, Learning & REM Sleep

Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), Locus Coeruleus & Sleep

InsideTracker

Locus Coeruleus, Trauma & Sleep, Antidepressants, Norepinephrine

Locus Coeruleus, Bedtime & Novelty, Estrogen & Trauma

Sex Differences & Sleep

Tool: Non-Sleep Deep Rest (NSDR), Insomnia, Meditation, Prayer

Sleep Spindles, Learning & Creativity, P Waves & Dreaming

Lucid Dreams, Reoccurring Dreams, Trauma

Trauma Recovery, Locus Coeruleus & Norepinephrine, REM Sleep

Opiates, Addiction, Relapse & Sleep

Zero-Cost Support, Spotify & Apple Reviews, YouTube Feedback, Sponsors, Momentous, Neural Network Newsletter, Social Media


In this episode, Andrew Huberman interviews Dr. Gina Poe about the relationship between sleep and learning. Dr. Poe's research focuses on how specific phases of sleep can act as its own form of trauma therapy and how they impact the release of growth hormone. The episode provides actionable steps to improve mental health, physical health, and performance. Sleep is divided into two stages: REM sleep and non-REM sleep. Non-REM sleep includes sleep spindles and K-complexes. REM sleep is associated with dreaming and is important for memory consolidation. Norepinephrine levels are lower during REM sleep, but people with PTSD have higher levels during this time. It is important to complete one of the 90-minute sleep cycles prior to waking up to avoid grogginess. Strategies to buffer healthy sleep architecture can help with withdrawal and recovery from opiate addiction. Graduate students and postdocs play a key role in research and should be paid more.

- Andrew Huberman interviews Dr. Gina Poe about the relationship between sleep and learning
- Dr. Poe's research focuses on how specific phases of sleep can act as its own form of trauma therapy
- Dr. Poe's laboratory focuses on how specific phases of sleep impact the release of growth hormone
- Getting to sleep at the same time each night is important for adequate growth hormone release
- Sleep can be used to optimize learning and forgetting
- Episode provides actionable steps to improve mental health, physical health, and performance

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- Rapid Eye Movement (REM) sleep in the second half of the night is associated with more elaborate dreams.
- During REM sleep, the body is normally paralyzed, preventing people from responding to the outside world.
- Sleepwalking occurs during slow-wave sleep and involves a mixture of sleep and wakefulness.
- Sleep-talking does not necessarily reflect truth and should not be taken seriously.

- It is important to complete one of the 90-minute sleep cycles prior to waking up to avoid grogginess.
- It is recommended to not use an alarm clock if possible and to listen to your body.
- Sleep inertia is caused by waking up out of deep, slow-wave sleep.
- Sleep trackers are only 70% effective at staging sleep.
- Combining subjective and objective data is best for understanding sleep.
- Recent research suggests that cortical EEG can be used to measure subcortical structures.

- During the early part of the night, the brain rebuilds ATP and cleans out misfolded proteins and debris
- This process is facilitated by slow waves of sleep and glia
- Going to sleep before 10 p.m. and waking up within a few hours of sunrise is better for health
- Pets can wake people up in the middle of the night, so it is best to get a non-nocturnal pet
- REM sleep is associated with dreaming and is important for memory consolidation

- The locus coeruleus is a structure in the brain filled with neurons that contain norepinephrine, the brain's version of epinephrine or adrenaline.
- It helps us respond to our environment and switch our attention quickly.
- It works with the cholinergic system of the basal forebrain to help us learn and remember.
- During sleep, the locus coeruleus slows and shuts off completely during REM sleep, which is important for erasing and breaking down synapses that are no longer working.
- Multiple molecules are involved in signaling attention to specific events, and the brain is more complicated than we think.

- Norepinephrine levels are lower during REM sleep, but people with PTSD have higher levels during this time
- Heart rate variability is lower when the locus surrealis is firing
- Norepinephrine prevents weakening of novelty encoding structures in the hippocampus
- If norepinephrine levels are too high, memories can't be erased from the novelty encoding structures
- This can lead to maladaptive responses to traumatic memories, even if they are years old

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- Trauma treatments range from cognitive behavioral therapy, talk therapy, drug therapy, EMDR, hypnosis, and psychedelics
- Antidepressants are counter-indicated for trauma as they inhibit REM sleep
- Neurodinergic and serotonergic reuptake inhibitors leave norepinephrine and serotonin in the synapses, respectively
- An effective trauma treatment does not erase the traumatic memory, but causes it to become a boring old story
- Neuromodulation during sleep can help to change the emotional load of traumas

- Avoid anything that might excite the sympathetic nervous system before going to sleep, such as novelty or stress-inducing activities
- Try calming activities such as deep breathing or meditation before bed
- Estrogen may be protective against PTSD, and testosterone can be converted to estrogen in the brain
- Women are more susceptible to anxiety-related mental health disorders, so understanding the locus coeruleus during sleep in women could help them be more resilient to stress-related disorders

- Women at high estrogen phases of their menstrual cycle sleep less, but the sleep is more efficient.
- Sleep spindles and theta cycles are more dense and coherent during high hormonal phases.
- NIH-funded grants are increasingly requiring biological sex as a variable in studies.
- Hormones have a huge effect on behavior and should be studied in addition to sex.
- Puberty is a massive transformation driven largely by hormones.

- Non-movement-based practices like yoga nidra and non-sleep deep rest (NSDR) can help people relax and fall asleep more quickly
- Anxiety about not getting enough sleep can create a positive feedback loop
- Prayer and other relaxation techniques can help people relax and break the loop
- Yawning may also have an effect on the locus coeruleus
- Jack Feldman has discovered structures in respiration and breathing that could be explored in collaboration

- Sleep is different from wakefulness and consists of two major states: non-REM and REM. 
- Non-REM consists of three stages: dozing, an interesting rhythm in the brain, and deep slow-wave sleep. 
- REM sleep is the most popular and is characterized by active dreams. 
- A perfect night's sleep is 7.5-8 hours long. 
- A study found that people in a semi-darkened room with nothing but a bed slept an average of 8.15 hours a night.

- Sleep spindles are well correlated with intelligence and the ability to consolidate new information.
- People with schizophrenia have poor sleep spindles.
- Sleep spindles are accompanied by plasticity in distal dendrites.
- PGO waves (P waves) are excitatory events from the brainstem that project to the cortex.
- P waves and spindles work together to cause plasticity and form schemas.
- P waves may be the origin of insight and creativity.
- P waves may be the cause of randomness in REM sleep dreams.

- During REM sleep, people can respond to external stimuli, such as math problems or questions about their name
- Lucid dreaming is a fad, but it can be used to redirect nightmares and break out of a rut
- Locus coeruleus is suppressed during REM sleep, which can be used as a built-in while-sleeping trauma therapy
- Trauma therapies involve getting close to the trauma narrative, but suppressing the emotional activity or taking people to the peak of the emotional response and allowing it to cycle down into a more relaxed response

- Locus coeruleus is a brain-based noradrenergic system that helps to shut off the sympathetic nervous system before sleep
- Norepinephrine is important in helping to divorce the emotional system from the cognitive parts of a memory
- There are nine different adrenergic structures in the brain, with the locus coeruleus being the main one that projects all over the brain
- Sleep deprivation is okay because the locus coeruleus does not have any receptors for norepinephrine
- Adrenals help to constrict blood vessels, increase blood pressure, and divert blood away from the parasympathetic system
- The effects of adrenals on the brain are not yet fully understood

- Sleep disturbance is a predictor of relapse behaviors in opiate addiction
- Exogenous opiates can reduce the number of receptors in the locus coerulis, leading to sleep disturbance
- Sleep disturbance can affect learning and memory
- Strategies to buffer healthy sleep architecture can help with withdrawal and recovery from opiate addiction
- Graduate students and postdocs play a key role in research and should be paid more

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- Different people need different amounts of sleep, but the exact purpose of sleep is unknown.
- Most people need more than 4-4.5 hours of sleep to avoid cognitive deficits.
- It is not possible to oversleep, but sleeping more than 9 hours could indicate an underlying health issue.
- Placebo effects can be strong and Eastern medicine can be effective in helping with sleep.

- Sleep is divided into two stages: REM sleep and non-REM sleep.
- Non-REM sleep includes sleep spindles and K-complexes.
- Hypnagogic hallucinations may occur during non-REM sleep.
- Early sleep dreams incorporate new experiences from the day.
- Memories are consolidated from the hippocampus to the cortex during sleep.

- Melatonin is a hormone associated with nighttime that makes us sleepy.
- Growth hormone release occurs all day and night, but the first sleep cycle has a big bolus of growth hormone release.
- Protein synthesis, which builds memories, occurs in the first cycle of sleep.
- Missing the first 90 minutes of sleep can disrupt the body's clock and prevent the release of growth hormone.
- Having consistent bedtimes and wake times is important for good neurological health.

- Sleep is important for brain and bodily development, especially in teenagers and adolescents.
- Alcohol should not be ingested within 4-6 hours of sleep, as it suppresses REM sleep.
- The first stage of sleep is incredibly important for memory consolidation and schema changing.
- The second and third 90-minute blocks of sleep are also important.

- REM sleep is the most creative stage of sleep
- Schema is a concept of related concepts that are linked together
- Drinking fluids slowly before bed can help reduce the need to wake up in the middle of the night
- Waking up once in the middle of the night is normal and should not be a cause for concern
- Early sleep is important and should be obtained by going to bed at the same time each night
- Sleep in the middle of the night may be different from the early and late sleep
- Deep sleep and vivid dreams are common in the morning

- Slow wave sleep is considered deep sleep, but REM sleep is actually deeper.
- It is difficult to arouse people out of slow wave sleep, but they can be more easily aroused out of REM sleep.
- In adults and older people, slow wave sleep is not as deep, so REM sleep becomes the deepest stage.
- Fire alarms don't wake children out of slow wave sleep, so they are trying to change fire alarms to be more salient.
- Children can be easily carried from the car to bed when they are in a deep sleep.

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Dr. Gina Poe: Use Sleep to Enhance Learning, Memory & Emotional State | Huberman Lab Podcast